120545-bi-weekly-patches
Content ---- I get that, Im simply asking was the thread update title mislabed or did carbine simply not think this through when posting "bi-weekly update". If they knew they couldnt do a update in the next 2 weeks why even say bi-weekly? Thats just silly :( | |} ---- ---- ---- Thx for the replys :D | |} ---- ---- I know :( Im just so disapointed :( | |} ---- ---- well i would understand that if a successful game was going smoothly and people werent waiting on the edge of their seat for a completed product, for the developers to simply "not think this through" as bazeleel said earlier in the thread. since the game is in near critical condition in regards to population, why didnt they plan for this? If they had the best of intentions for us to have these biweekly patches and they were on a clear concise schedule, they would have intended for it to land on the 30th ish, but that is not the case. when will devs want to round up the left over players? making people wait that have already been waiting for necessary updates may make those players not want to play even moreso than if they had just published a patch schedule, or at least an announcement that they wouldnt release something. | |} ---- ---- ---- i 100% 1000% 10000% agree with this. i dont think anyone would disagree. but that isnt the point now is it? you dont say bi-weekly and then not deliver a bi-weekly. dont say stuff then not do it, or even worse not even explain why it wasnt done. this is exactly like the drop every month crap they originally spoke of before launch, that fell through because they didnt understand how hard it would be to roll out content, while fixing bugs. now we dont even have dates for drops. they just "come out when they are ready" for carbine to put a date on anything is a horrible mistake. | |} ---- Ditto, Except for this past Sunday, I've worked every day since Christmas Eve, am working now, and will be there tomorrow. And it's not because I need the money, it's because stuff needs to be done. Only near the very top and very bottom of the totem pole will you find the people who got time off. | |} ---- ---- ---- you arnt scared that CRB will mess up again? that the raid will be too hard and youll have to wait for a patch so you can down a boss? | |} ---- That's what we have the PTR for. And so far it looks to be alright tuned. There is definitely still work to be done, but it's not as bad as I initially thought it to be. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I know you have only the best intentions here, trying to diffuse a delicate situation and all, but this is basically the same thing we keep hearing about patches. First we were told bug fixes would come as they were ready. Then we were told that they would come in the monthly drops. Then we were told that those monthly drops were going to be quarterly. Lately we were told that there would be bi-weekly patches in between the quarterly drops. And now we're being told that those bi-weekly patches are "when they are ready" patches. Well which is it? How exactly do you expect the community, that still has an iota of faith left, to react to this? Honestly it's progressed far beyond the point on infuriating and has elevated to somewhat of a plateau between "when Hell freezes over" and "June 6, 1944". I'm not saying this is exactly your fault, but stop "promising" stuff if it can't happen. Just stop please. | |} ---- +500000 This is what I was trying to say! Welcome back btw mark :) Always nice to you back! Thx for the reply! | |} ---- This is where the distinction between a DROP and a PATCH comes into play. The Drops are still quarterly. A Drop is a big update, new features, new content, big changes or lots of them all in one go etc. A Patch is usually when we fix stuff, re-balance things, with the occasional small feature or gameplay change. We listened to the feedback that waiting for Drops to get key fixes in place was way too long, so with a lot of work and process, Dev/Live started to get the ball rolling towards these "Bi-Weekly" patches. As pointed out, this name isn't ideal because they aren't happening "Bi-Weekly" but when we can make them happen, however the intent is to get them running around that "every two-weeks margin". And I am writing all this SPECIFICALLY because I want to make it clear we are NOT promising stuff. To my knowledge, we haven't promised stuff either. We are still on the same "when we can make fixes happen, we will make them happen" schedule and that hasn't changed since we switched the drops to a quarterly deployment. If a member of staff has said somewhere that we will definitely be doing a "Bi-Weekly" patch, bang on time, every two-weeks between drops then please let me know so I can chat to them because that is not my understanding. No matter what, there can always be unforeseen issues that prevent us from hitting deadlines like that so *any* timeframe not posted on the main website, in a news post, should be taken with a "no issues permitting" clause auto-included. Just to further the point though, I 100% agree that we should have clearly messaged there would be no updates over the holiday period (I could only speak for the Community Team's availability in my holidays post due to my locale) and I completely agree that we shouldn't be giving people false expectations by calling things "Bi-Weekly" when there is a chance it may not be. However, we've always worked towards getting fixes out as and when we could, we're just now trying to formalise it and lock it down to a more regular schedule. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding. | |} ---- I dont think anyone was upset that people went on vacation. You guys deserve a break ffs! I think its in the best intrest of carbine to simply call them patchs because right now track record is really bad. Now that its a new year lets put the foot forward and no more 1 forward 2 steps back. If cabine can do weekly/bi-weekly patches great but dont commite to something you guys know is out of your reach. This is something that I feel carbine doesnt understand how importaint these are to get out as quick as possible. The medic probes took almost 5 weeks to fix. Other big issues also took weeks to fix. The PvP Q issue with DS is STILL in the game and thats been over 2 months now. Thats a no no. So if carbine wants to commit to bi-weekly or a scheduled patchs then great. Personally I would like to see this BUT if you dont have the dev power for it dont. | |} ---- game development is a lot harder then you think there is a lot of work to do explaining each step from getting a bug and fixing it towards publishing the fix would be too hard but i will do a basic scheme: 1. find the bug 2. collect information about the bug 3. put a coder on it 4. get tests going to find the code that you need 5. fix/restructure the code 6. test the code 7. if possible put it in the next hotfix IF it doesnt need a new build (this is getting really indepth but let me quickly explain what i mean with builds: a build is a complete new structure in a code it means that you actually put NEW code in it to fix something) 8. hope it didnt break anything else (it most likely did) changing logic (not the brain logic the computer logic) is a indepth thing and needs time to fix and test it easily breaks things. mathematical things + logical things like matchmaking are hard to adjust and kinda unforgiving if you mess up! carbine said that they wont make a complete new build for one fix and publish it (way too much work you need to compile the complete game for that shit usually)... if they got enough new code then thats whats called patch/drop its not about dev power you cant put more then a few devs on one fix they will most likely completely ruin the system and make it worse if there are too many. development is hard and frustrating as a dev and as a player but what we can do is show the respect for the things that the devs do because fixing one thing most likely will break another thing. ps: this is a scheme example and indepth development can and most likely will look different from company to company. | |} ---- I am fully awear of how much time and work it takes. All we are asking for is that carbine stops making statements they cant keep and at the very least thinks before they post things. All that does it hurt their rep and the communities over all perspective about them. Telling me or anyone the steps needed or amount of work put in for patches feels like talking down to me or telling them they have no idea, i dont know if you meant it that way, but trust me, 99% of the community understand that nothing happens over night. | |} ---- ---- Ok but heres the thing You and many others specifically called them bi-weekly patches. That name implies, by its very definition, that you will release a patch roughly every 2 weeks. If you set up an hourly train service and you only ran 4 trains a day, people would be rightly pissed off. Either completely stop referring to it as a bi-weekly patch or start delivering things at the rate that matches what you claim. Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash what you guys do. You're all working hard and trying to fix the bugs. This is purely a communication issue in that you're misleading the players into thinking you're going to be releasing fixes at a rate that just isn't doable. | |} ---- Pretty much this | |} ---- I refer you both to the following in my earlier posts on the topic; ;) It's something we (Community Team) have already discussed with the Live/Dev teams but habits can be tricky to break. I'd rather just call it a "Patch" myself. Then we could have; Hotfixes, Patches and Drops. Three very clear, very distinct types of "update". | |} ---- No one is ignoring what your saying mark :D I think people just want to post their agreeing thoughts on the matter. The more people that say the same thing maybe you wont have to fight to with the live team to change. That is my hope with the this thread at least. As a community I think its very clear we want the devs to either stick to their statements or stop saying things that never happen or take weeks or months. Again mark, you have been a awesome part of getting communication around the studio, thank you for that! | |} ---- ---- Nooooooooooooo they do not. | |} ---- ---- Well part of the problem here is the timing. The holiday vacation was most likely not a surprise to anyone down at Carbine Studios. Given that fact, it really makes you wonder why it was given such a title, "Bi-Weekly", if it was known that it couldn't be followed up in ~2 weeks. Secondly, it is my strong opinion after everything that has gone down regarding WildStar, this "oversight" should be scrutinized. Everything that is released, talked about, notioned, even referenced will be strongly scrutinized by everyone that has lasted this long and even outside elements either wishing to join this community or looking back over their shoulder at what they left behind. | |} ---- Believe me carbine has been given plenty of slack. No one is bashing them for going on holiday. We simply are asking for them to communicate better. Bi-weekly patches is fine if they would have said "this starts X date after we come back from holiday break". | |} ---- ---- Are you serious? You're arguing semantics right now. I'm not sure what you want the devs to do other than saying "Sorry, that term wasn't intended to be a promise" which.. you know, they've already done. If you scrutinize every single word these people write, they're going to be less apt to actually write them. So what you're doing is only going to accomplish the exact opposite of what you desire. | |} ---- I second that motion! | |} ---- high hopes on these forums | |} ---- You've been here long enough to know there will be confusion and complaining no matter what they call it. They could call them sparkley glue sticks for all the difference it would make. At this point, the reflexive complainers don't even need a reason anymore. | |} ---- ---- For the most part, things do get fixed in a reasonable amount of time. For a given real world definition of reasonable. Players don't have a realistic definition of reasonable most of the time. | |} ---- i suppose "reasonable" is subjective. nice catch! | |} ---- So GA patterns being broken from their launch in Drop 3, being reported immediately and the fix timeline, which is being intentionally withheld (most likely D4) is reasonable or subjective to anyone? Edit: here is our reasonable example. | |} ---- Chua recommend call all patches "sparkly glue stick" from now on! | |} ----